In my effort to cover in-depth all the Ten Thirteen interviews, there are times I get lost in my obsession with notes-taking. Here is a long (3 hours!) interview with the unparalleled Darin Morgan from… January 2025 — an interview for the X-Files Diaries podcast (now rebaptized Seriously Obsessed). What a joy to have such long interviews! In the past, interviews were most often written pieces by professional journalists for published magazines; in the past few years, there has been an explosion of interviews with the democratization of podcasting. Today, I get the impression that we are at the tail end of that wave as well.
Darin goes in-depth on all of his X-Files episodes and offers many details I don’t remember hearing elsewhere. Enjoy! Here are my notes [and occasional comments].
Part 1
Jose Chung’s ‘From Outer Space’: from the very moment he was hired in season 2 he had the idea of the teaser, an alien abduction abduction; he didn’t have the rest of the episode, he couldn’t figure it out. As a result, he did “the killer cockroaches episode” first. While casting that, one actor was just like Truman Capote (they didn’t cast him). He thought that instead of In Cold Blood he would write a story about alien abductions, and he figured the story out! Earlier in Coprophages he has Scully reading a Capote book, which was an inside joke to Duchovny’s appearance on Jeopardy, as if the idea was there and trying to tell him to pay attention, he was not receptive to it yet.
Blood: Glen gave him the story, machines tell people to kill people, and told him to write it. Glen would try to convince Carter to hire him, then they needed urgently a script in a day. He came in to break the story with Glen, Jim and Howard Gordon, then Glen and Jim would write the script real quick. Darin remembers contributing with nothing. Gordon thought Darin “got” the show. Then a writer was fired, there was an opening. The Flukeman role was because Carter knew Darin was looking for a job. He thinks he got the writing job thanks to Gordon. Carter says he perceived something in Darin, but he hadn’t read anything of his. Carter had a sixth sense to recruit people he could trust, a talent.
He discussed with Glen how long the show would last, they estimated 3 seasons. Jim told him to save the idea for season 4.
Humbug: Glen told him to do an episode about circus freaks, he loved the movie Freaks. He gave him a VHS of Jim Rose. He can’t write without comedy, he’s not purposefully trying to deconstruct. Carter should have fired him when he pitched the idea, but he liked the story. Glen had him change a few things, but mainly he wanted Chris to know what he got into. Carter liked the script even if it was “not the show”. Fox had a huge problem, they were worried. The talent of Chris was that he thought the fans would accept the difference.
He recognizes that he wrote few episodes and had an influence on the show. Although he thinks that somebody would have done comedy down the line, and he’s not a fan of many of the comedic episodes that followed. If the first one had been bad, like Fight Club [ha!], then they wouldn’t have done more. Everybody was nervous. Manners thought it would end his career. He is somewhat resentful of the comedy episodes that followed his because they didn’t have to go through what he did, they were not new, there was no pressure. Humbug was enjoyable, it was raw energy. The end product is always less than what the idea was, some lines were not great [typical self-depreciating Darin]. He would have written it differently now, better.
The audience is so-called more sophisticated now. But Humbug was received more easily than Were-Monster. He had no computer during the original run. In the revival he read everything, that was unhealthy.
Coprophages: he had a very hard time writing it. His own opinion of the episodes is tied to the personal experience of working on them. The inspiration for Bambi was an entomologist in the University of Illinois, she did a festival around insects in horror movies, and a few years ago she invited Chris to show Fight the Future and Coprophages, and Chris invited Darin, so he saw it with an audience. About the stoners: he read someone was trying to get high on crap. TXF needed unreliable eye witnesses.
Quagmire: he is credited as doing a rewrite but it isn’t true, he wrote the Conversation on the Rock [That’s already a lot!] and he helped break the story. The stoners were not his idea, it was Vince who wrote that scene. It was a group effort. He doesn’t like Easter eggs, he likes references to past episodes, it’s amusing, like how the past carries weight, like how a continuous story series would do now.
Back in the day nobody wanted to have Mulder and Scully romantically involved, as it would become a different show; they had to be thinking about weird stuff, monsters. The M&S couple was interesting because they had been through so much and nobody else could relate to them. The jealousy in Coprophages was for comedic effect, it had not been tried before. Gillian had to do some other work, she would not be much available, hence she had less scenes, Bambi was introduced, it was a scientist taking Scully’s job away from her, it was also a professional jealousy. The performances played the MSR well.
MSR in the revival: people who have been through so much, on and off, understand each other like no other, they don’t need to define what they have. He wonders what it would have been like if M&S each had had life partners. The long term trajectory of the MSR was accidental.
Coprophages doesn’t have a good main character that the episode would be centered around. Bambi and the roboticist are one-note.
The only actor he wrote the part for and was cast was Jesse Ventura. He didn’t have actor in mind for Clyde Bruckman; he considered Bob Newhart jokingly for 5 minutes. He drove Rick Millikan crazy, he was a movie guy, he didn’t know TV actors. He was very lucky with the casting. Casting is very fun but also torture. He wanted to cast Rip Taylor for Jose Chung, he seemed more hip, but he was unavailable. Charles Nelson Reilly gave the best audition. His first scene was the interview with Scully, Darin was there on set, he seemed perfect for the role. He knew Reilly from “Lidsville” (1971-1972) and “Match Game” (1990-1991). He didn’t meet Peter Boyle [Clyde Bruckman] until after the episode was shot. The guest stars had problems adjusting to his episodes, they thought TXF was a drama. Watching Stuart Margolin’s audition tape [Dr They], Glen said older actors understand what they’re looking for, they have experience in theatrical performance, younger actors don’t. He knew Stuart from “The Rockford Files” but he didn’t watch it as a kid. These actors always worked, either in theatre, or directing. He gave him directions and he understood immediately, he was in complete control of the craft.
He didn’t write Scully to be immortal, that’s bad sci-fi. But after he left, the writers were free to do whatever they wanted, it was out of his hands. Maybe that’s what Chris’s plan. Same with Mulder-Scully relationship, if they’d ever kiss he wouldn’t be the one writing it.
Clyde Bruckman: he was trying to do an episode like Beyond the Sea, he thought it was the best episode of the early seasons, very inspired. Vince was an admirer of Clyde Bruckman, perhaps it inspired him for Tithonus? Chris let writers have their own voice, their own approach, but not everybody had a good experience writing for the show. The best work of the different writers is recognizable and connected across the series. A series is its best episodes and for TXF they are very different from each other. He is proud that Chris didn’t have to spend time breaking, writing and re-writing his season 3 episodes. Glen & Jim could do 8-10 episodes per season on their own, Chris needed writers like this.
Mulder was on a mythic quest and acted like it, he wanted to make fun of him. He felt sorry for Scully, to be involved with someone she cares about but is crazy. In the revival his attitude to Mulder changed dramatically, he was more sympathetic to him, David appreciated that. Once he finds the truth, then what happens, what does my life amount to? And he is still sorry for Scully. M&S are obviously in love with each other, but they don’t get along all the time necessarily. Mulder is absorbed in his quest, he couldn’t see he had this beautiful woman next to him, in the revival he is more receptive.
The preying mantis scream in Coprophages was from his own experience, he saw a “walking stick” in a tree as a kid. He still laughs at Mulder’s yell in Jose Chung.
Jesse Ventura’s car scene in Jose Chung: the old car moved slow, so it was accelerated to make it look faster. Then they started pulling apart the set, and Rob Bowman was not sure if it would look too comical; Darin’s answer was “maybe!”, then Rob rushed to shoot one more take with a different speed. That’s the chaos on set. The car exit in reverse is an example of Darin’s theatrical writing, like a scene exit.
While he was walking his dogs he ran into Rob Bowman! He hadn’t seen him in decades, they had lunch. He told him about fans loving Jose Chung, this was odd for him, he doesn’t consider it his best work. [Wow!]
Part 2
Jose Chung: He was a fan of Jesse “The Body” Ventura, he was a wrestler fan as a kid. He’s hilarious as a commentator and in action films. He wrote lines for him, but he had trouble with them. It was the best performance in any of his film work!
For the Men In Black (Alex Trebek) he had originally in mind Salman Rushdie [!]. Carter and Bowman shot down that idea. Glen suggested Johnny Cash, but he was unavailable. Darin thought of Steven Spielberg [!!!]. He wrote a letter to Spielberg, but they got word he was unavailable before the letter was sent. A couple of years later Darin had a meeting with him, and he said he would have done it! [Imagine that! Also, Darin and Spielberg met?! In what context?]
He was throwing names around with Jeff Vlaming and came up with Alex Trebek, with the Duchovny Jeopardy connection.
Small Potatoes: He did a single shot after morphing back into Eddie from Mulder, Gillian was probably not there when it was shot, the SFX shots were done last; he was not wearing pants during that shot. If you don’t see David or Gillian from the front, then probably it’s not them, it’s their stand-ins. He hadn’t acted in a while, he could have been better. Vince saw a weird quality in him, that he had an ability that he didn’t know what to do with, so he cast him.
Queequeg: he didn’t have a dog at the time, he gave Scully a dog without thinking of the implications or running it by Carter. The fans started asking about it, and Carter said to get rid of it. Gillian didn’t like the dog, Darin didn’t choose it. He broke the Quagmire story in a day. He needed a victim for the end; he pitched it to the staff; someone suggested the dog. He wouldn’t do that now, neither would Carter.
When they started the revival he didn’t know that they had had a kid.
In the revival, Scully needed a dog, to make up for it. She got a better looking one. He didn’t have the intention to bring Dagoo back. In his mind, Scully has a pack of dogs.
Directing in revival: he had forgotten how long things took, it was frustrating for that. There are things wrong with Were-monster but he doesn’t know what he would change in it. He had fun with Forehead Sweat. When the director is another person you have to explain things, sometimes they bring good things. He learned a lot from the 3 great TXF directors. He was glad Carter let them direct in the revival.
Guy Mann has a line about internal logic, it was a meta comment about TXF, none of it makes sense. He was watching old Universal monster movies like The Wolf Man, the detailed logic didn’t make sense. TXF is that type of story. It was also a comment on our lives that make no sense. He lived in fear somebody would do the were-monster story before he could do it.
Forehead Sweat: what would Rod Serling write about Trump?
The best Twilight Zone episodes are a guy trying to explain what’s happening, and their heads have forehead sweat. “Lost art” because he doesn’t see that any more. Then he would rewatch it and he would only find just a handful of episodes like that, a Mandela effect.
His dad’s favorite episode that he wrote is Small Potatoes. [Ironic!]
He read comments that fans said this episode is going to age so quickly because of Trump references, but the episode is more relevant now than when it aired. He watches news about gaslighting, disinformation, waiting to hear “it’s like that episode of TXF”, it’s only gotten worse.
It predated QAnon; the middle name of Dr They was “Q”; he wanted to start a rumor that QAnon was a publicity stunt by TXF.
Being specific vs being vague. In the end, was Reggie crazy? The episode aired one year after Trump’s inauguration. One year ago, Reggie had a nervous breakdown. The last flashback was when Trump was coming. It was the demise of American idealism, Trump becoming president was the last straw. He had a line for Reggie, “Trump became president and my head exploded”, it was too on the nose and he cut it. The alien-as-Trump is part of his breakdown. Reggie was when the president no longer represents your country’s ideals. But nobody saw that. TXF had to have a vagueness to the ending, like, “here’s the explanation, but, who knows?”.
For the fake credits scene, the script was due the next day and it was the last thing he wrote. He watched the series in fast-forward, he only had the DVDs for 2 seasons, he bought a subscription to Hulu just to search a scene to insert Reggie during that one night. In the Small Potatoes butt crack shot, the SFX guy told him there was only enough room to insert Reggie if they just removed Mulder. He always laughs when Reggie shoots him [Darin].
The intention was for the alien to give a Trump-like speech. But then it would be perceived as anti-Trump. So it the speech had to be verbatim, to use the exact words.
He has tons of references to the 1970s, film quotes. It was the beginnings of conspiracy paranoia. One of the references was the Elvis cape, his Las Vegas era, which people found weird; then recently people started referring to Trump as being in his “fat Elvis” stage, now it works.
He doesn’t remember that Mulder is color blind.
The episode’s ending “can’t be” a series ending, but it is his ending, his finale for the series. [It’s a great series finale all right!]
He didn’t call the episodes “monster of the week”, he called them “stand-alones”.
As per Frank O’Connor, two characters in fiction are actually one person. This is Mulder and Scully. They are “platonic soul mates”.
